So I made a comment over at Jesus or Zoloft and a kind woman (pastordt) took the time to disagree with me and offer responses to my questions. You might want to read the actual blog post (the link above). You can also see the original comment thread there, or read it here (I've been given permission to post it). Also check out the post I wrote before this conversation got started (Mental Illness and Jesus).
me:
I agree with you [referring to Jamie who wrote the blog post] that depression is not a sin, but I do think that it is caused by sin and therefore a spiritual, not a medical, battle. I think it's natural that we be plagued by the effects of sin as long as we are still in this world and not yet resurrected in Christ.
Although I feel like I should agree with you, I currently don't. I think depression is a real, evil attack against us that brings us to a point where we are willing to value the functionality and freedom of our life over the grace of Christ. I think it's a spiritual battle that is supposed to be fought, no matter how difficult, by faith. And that faith looks like totally depending on God to make you alive and hopeful and able to bear fruit for Him. I think that I need to believe in His power to free me and that I'm hiding from the battle by taking anti-depressants. A lot of Christian's who suffer from depression read the psalms and connect with what the psalmist said. He gained victory over his depression by trusting God.
I don't think taking anti-depressants for depression is similar to taking insulin for diabetes. The mind is much more complex than the body. Our identity is in our minds, not our body. Our faith and reasoning is in our minds, not our body. Ultimately it's a personal decision. Mine is that if I really do claim to believe that God is everything that bible says He is, then I need to trust Him to free me or not free me from depression as is necessary for Him to be glorified as He pleases.
If you want to examine the source of this opinion (me) you can read my blog.
Otherwise it's just another perspective to take into consideration.
pastordt:
This just makes me sad, and a little bit scared, too. As with any other battle we endure in this life, there is, indeed, a spiritual component to depression. We are whole creatures, body/mind/soul. Separating them out is not helpful nor is it even scriptural.
Mental illness, in all its complicated permutations, IS an illness of the body as well as the mind, just as diabetes, with all its multi-layered complexity is an illness of the mind as well as the body. You cannot just carve out pieces of yourself and say medical care is appropriate for this but not for that.
That desire to make the mind the only part of us with connection to God is a piece of the oldest heresy on the books - gnosticism. I truly hope you will reconsider and avail yourself of all the help that is out here in this world, this world where God's truth is unveiled in the science lab as well as in the pages of scripture.
We believe in a resurrection of the body, remember? The body. And our minds are an intrinsic part of that body. Maybe, just maybe, God has already given you all the information you need to walk down the path toward wholeness. You are choosing not to take that path.
God is glorified, as Iraneaus put it in the 2nd century, by 'the human person, fully alive.' If you are truly battling clinically diagnosable depression, then you are not fully alive. And everything in scripture and in the history of faith points us in the direction of choosing life. For many believers, that means availing themselves of medicine that helps to rebalance important chemicals in the brain that impact mood. It doesn't work for everyone, but for many it is nothing less than a Godsend. And I use that word very deliberately.
me:
Hi pastordt,
Thanks for replying. I'm still forming my views on this and I'm glad to have people who challenge me and make me keep examining things.
First, can I ask what you mean by my conclusions making you scared?
Also, I hadn't thought so far as to realize that dividing the mind and body is not biblical. You've given me new things to think about. I didn't mean to make it that the mind was our only connection with God.
I think the foundation of my thinking right now is that I really want to abide by the claims that Jesus is capable of healing and that He is all I need to fully alive. You probably understand that early faith often appears in fairly extreme beliefs....
Regarding God being glorified in us being fully alive... am I supposed to be made fully alive while still on this earth? Isn't it impossible for me to be fully alive as long as any sin is present?
Finally, cannot choosing life simply mean choosing Christ? Do you think it is dangerous for me to keep hoping that Jesus will heal me/not heal me as necessary for His glory (and not take medication)? I want to believe that abiding in Christ can rebalance the brain chemicals that impact mood.
pastordt
Meghan,
I am frightened by the fact that you somehow believe that taking medicine for an illness is not an example of healing. I am frightened because I know that untreated depression can, quite literally, be deadly. I am frightened because I want you to live a full, rich life. Not a pain-free life - that is not possible, nor even desirable. But if you're doing battle against brain chemistry gone awry, and God, in his mercy, has brought us to the point of understanding more about how such chemistry works and has allowed the discovery of pills to help regulate that chemistry - why in the world would you choose not to find out if that might be what you need to do? If that avenue might be the one through which God might facilitate healing?
I don't know you and I don't know the depths of your depression. But if you are, indeed, truly depressed, then you need to see a doctor who can point you toward both good talk therapy and medical help.
Yes, when we choose Christ, we choose life. But all along the journey between now and the time we die, we have to keep choosing life. That means making informed decisions about what is best for us and our own particular set of physical and/or mental difficulties. Indeed, Jesus heals. But not always in the time or manner that we might imagine, or even in the way we might choose.
What concerns me is that you have somehow relegated your mental health to a status that is outside some sort of boundary you have deduced from scripture. If you are new to the faith, I want to welcome you and encourage you to continue to read, to learn about a variety of spiritual disciplines and to offer yourself back to God through meaningful service. All of that is part of following after Jesus.
But at the top of the list is making sure that we're doing the best we can to care for the bodies and minds we've been given. This is where we meet God -- here in our whole selves. And this is where our own healing happens. The tension I feel is that it reads as though you believe if only you have enough 'faith,' then you will be healed.
This, in a way, is a form of trying to be good enough, courageous enough, trusting enough - when that just is not possible for us. I fear it is a version of what we sometimes label 'works righteousness,' our continuing efforts to somehow prove ourselves worthy of God's love and grace.
But you see, it's not up to us to prove that. God SEES US AS WORTHY BECAUSE OF JESUS. And God loves us even when our faith is tiny, Do you believe that you must prove something to God by believing as you do? Because I want to tell you that you don't have to prove a thing. Going to a doctor to talk about depression is not a sign of too little faith, dear Meghan. It is a sign of life and a seeking after hope. And often, it is exactly what is needed for healing to take place.
Just taking a pill will not solve everything. What it will do is get your chemistry balanced enough for you to continue to do the rest of your life (including growing in your faith) without the heavy weight of depression inhibiting every second of every day. You may discover that this is something that you will need to do for the rest of your life. But you may not. Sometimes, a few months of therapy is all that is needed. But you'll not know that if you don't pursue every avenue available to you.
This is a huge topic, complicated with many layers. And I'm glad you remain open to discussion about it.
Many blessings to you as you continue to think and pray about all of this.
me:
Hi again,
Wow thank you for responding with such kindness and detail to my questions. I must say you've done an impressive job of getting me to waver some on what was a staunch opinion. It's definitely an opinion that I'm going to be continually examining, I'm copying your comment to a word doc to hold onto for re-reads. (I've got a lot to learn and it usually requires me testing things out for myself before I really learn them).
I'm not currently at a point where I've actually needed to consider taking medication, my depressive seasons are usually in response to specific things (like not understanding and therefore refusing to believe God and therefore having no hope). I'm not sure that I actually have clinical depression.
Also, it's quite likely that I'm guilty of the 'trying to prove myself to God, earn His love etc". I have a history of doing that.
Might I post your comment on my blog, so that people who've read my opinion may also read yours? I don't want to be the voice that stops someone from taking medication if they think they need it. If I put it up and you want me to take it down later just let me know.
Thank you again for your concern,
Meghan
***
I admit that reading pastordt's responses made me a bit scared and had me going "God, God, God, I just don't know, God, if I'm wrong, God, God, please don't abandon me for being wrong, God I am way sorry and I totally need You. My opinion doesn't mean anything. I just need you. Sorry sorry sorry sorry"
I also went over to JP to try to find some solace in an opinion agreeing with mine. Turns out he disagrees with me too: "No man could persuade me that all mental derangement is owing to a spiritual cause that has a purely spiritual solution". From Here.
It might turn out that I disagree with me, but I don't yet.
What do you think?
